What are you founding fathers trying to push on me! Mr. Jefferson, you didn't even help write the Constitution! "Provide for the general welfare" was in the preamble. Like anybody gives a crap what the preamble has to say. It seems to me like Space Moose is the only one who REALLY knows the Constitution here. I'm ashamed at you, Mr. Jefferson.
Responses:
Thomas Jefferson
Look, not everyone is "in here" (thank the Lord), and I know more about the various Federalist Papers than most in here, so you're just going to have to deal with me here.
Thomas Jefferson
As to your question as to who gives a crap about the preamble - The obvious answer is "Great Society knuckleheads who had big ideas for reshaping the government of this country in their image, but had to find some way of making it seem like that's what the founding fathers wanted all along."
Thomas Jefferson
The next government that Space and I are working on will address many of the shortcommings of this one. After all, it's impossible to create a complete, perfect, functioning government in one go. It's a trial and error project, each government is just a new iteration, a refinement, of the experiment that has been going on since the early Greeks made their first rough steps towards representative government.
H/\x0r d00d
Getting a l33t government right in one go would be kindof like writing a 200,000 line perl script without any bugs. I could do it of course, 'coz I'm hella l33t, but that's a special case.
Thomas Jefferson
We're going to be incorporating the recent technological advances into our new government. The internet enables us to use direct voting to our advantage.
Consider:
Thomas Jefferson
Let's say our new Constitution contains a clause stating that the constitution may not be changed, abridged, amended, or altered without 80% approval from the public in a direct vote.
Thomas Jefferson
Now, consider if that 80% is "80% of all registered voters", not "80% of those who voted"
Thomas Jefferson
This would enable us to use the huge, non-voting dead weight against themselves. We would be virtually assured that only the most dire, most amazingly popular amendements would pass.
Thomas Jefferson
Take that, ignorant voters!
Porn
Ministry of Pornography, here we come!
Thomas Jefferson
Your further participation in this dialog is, of course, encouraged.
AngryShrew
Wow, Mr. Jefferson, that's pretty brilliant, but really, the internet? We all know how those internet polls work out; people voting ten times or more. Changeable IPs would screw up that system. And then, what's to keep idiots from voting?
Wow, I've got to say, discussing government with the founding fathers is pretty fun. Let's try this: In the Miller vs. California, obscenity was outlawed. This means that pornography with no social redeeming value cannot be published or distributed. How can this be justified? Whatever happened to the first amendment? Just because the government views obscenity to be immoral, it is outlawed. What are your thoughts on this?
Then, what if obscenity was part of somebody's religion? What then?
H/\x0r d00d
Well DUH AngryShrew, it's not like internet voting would be done via some web page or some lus3r nonsense like that. It would have to be done via a special dedicated system involing 1024 bit keys and stuff. I would bang it out in perl in about a day.
George Washington
Regarding Miller vs. California, what part of "NO LAW" isn't clear here? despite the fact that all of us founders were Christian, we took great pains to divorce the constitution from the views of morality one way or the other.
George Washington
What is thought of as "obscene" to one man is thought of as "The Conversatron" by another.
Space Moose
Anus!
George Washington
We made sure that the only personal actions forbidden by the constitution were ones that infringed on the basic rights of others...
Space Moose
Penis!
George Washington
... such as murder, bodily damage, kidnapping, theft, trespass..
Space Moose
CUNT!
George Washington
... and the like. I can assure you that any law forbidding freedom of expression is NOT derived from the Constitution, but from the unfortunately small mind of some busybody who wants to force others to live life as he envisions it.
Space Moose
DICK! TWOT! FELTCH!! FUCK!
SOMEONE PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!
George Washington
Does that answer your question? You can see, we certainly aren't here to defend decisions made by the present day monster which was once our little baby.
George Washington
*sniff*
Dave Thomas
So after all that, it appears the answer to the original question is a "strict" constructionism agrument.
Goliath
Uh, Geee, ya think, Davey?
Thomas Jefferson
Well, not really, you see we don't have to answer the strict versus interprative decision because we're dead. What's more, porn was never considered speech in our day, so when we said no law... speech.. ya dada dada... we weren't in any way talking about protecting porn. However, if it's speech to you, more power to you.
Dave Thomas
But of course the original argument of loose vs. strict constructivism was more an argument of state vs. federal rights than anything else. Of course, you don't hear too much about state rights anymore, which is what happens when a bunch of states hide behind their "rights" to defend something as terrible as slavery. Remember that, when you use your "rights" to defend every single stupid thing you do.
Dave Thomas
Of course, you're always free to order a spicy chicken sandwhich at Wendy's! God bless America!
